Hello, good Evening. Everybody, good evening, Lagosians. Good evening good citizens of Nigeria. Wherever you are at listening right now, good evening. If you’re in traffic, if you at home, wherever you are. good evening.
It’s a pleasure to be here this lovely Friday. I think this is the last Friday in the month of August. Wow, you’re about to enter the Ember months, right? Very, very interesting, you know, it’s very interesting that we are able to be with you this last Friday.
Our Mummy G. O cannot be here today. She is out of the country, unfortunately. Unfortunately, so she sends her regards and you know, she has to enjoy some of her birthday, you know? And so, you know, after celebrating her birthday last week, she has to take some time off to get some rest.
It’s been a very, very, very busy year, but she will be back with you. Hopefully, I think another two weeks, I think. But this is just me speculating right now.
I’m your host for this evening, Danny Cruz, and I have a special co-host with me today. Her name is, I will not reveal her name. I just reviewed the initial T. I. It is up to her to say if she wants to say the full meaning of T. I. or not.
Her name is T. I. for today. If you want to tell us, you tell us what Is the full meaning of T. I. before we start to assume that you’re our T. I. of, you know, the T. I., if you know T. I., you know T.I. if you don’t know, then forget about it.
(Dami and T. I. laughs)
Like, I ask her on our way, do you actually know the rapper, T. 1? she doesn’t know.
(Dami and T. I. laughs)
Welcome to the show
T.I.: (Cuts in) Thank you, Dami
Dami: To the Good Citizen Show. And it’s such a pleasure again to be here with you this lovely Friday. And once again, my condolences really to all the students who are suffering as a result of this ASUU srike that is just, it’s just, it’s just a very unfortunate event really that keeps on going on and going on and going on. And, you wonder, you go into the work world that you will find, they will tell you we need the minimum of 21
T.I.: 5 years exeperience
Dami: With 5 years’ experience. And 2.1. And you’ll be thinking. Do they know their target markets are for?
T.I.: Or industry-specific experience. if it’s one thing they say, you just have general work experience, right? I mean you can collate number of volunteers
Dami: Volunteer work
T.I.: But then there is industry-specific experience. Like where am I going to get it from?
Dami: when you’re asking for five years, like our very, very even, famous say, Alaba market. You never can tell you can find anything there. But, honestly, it’s a very painful experience always hearing that thing. Having to you know hear that they’ve
T.I.: (Cuts in) I think that they have it better. I don’t know I should say that but,
Dami: Is it better?
T.I.: Not really, but I think they’re in a era where, you know, parents are encouraging their children to go out and do something with their time. During my time I was home, I was doing house girl. I did house girl for all of my nieces and nephews
Dami: (Laughs)
T.I.: No, I remember when I told my mom, oh, I’m staying back in school this time to learn.And she said.
Dami: Excuse me?
T.I.: No. There’s no such thing as learning.
Dami: (Laughs)
T.I.: What kind of learning is that? Come and learn it in my house.
Dami: I know, right? I think, which we’ll definitely come back to our conversation for today, really? But I think we’re in an area where like you mentioned there’s a lot more open-mindedness
T.I.: Hmm hmm
Dami: Really, which is a good thing. Thankfully, to a certain degree
T.I.: Yeah
Dami: Too much open-mindedness is not good. Because you will just allow your
T.I.: (Cuts in)
Everybody is embracing individuality. My peace. My this. My that
Dami: My mental health
T.I.: My mental (Dami and T. I. laughs). Lord Jesus. Help me.
Dami: Everything right now, look I need to take, I don’t know if it’s Zen Z or Gen X.
T.I.: It’s Gen Z
Dami: Gen Z, right?
- I.: Yeah
Dami: When you say, I want to take some time off work for my mental health.
- I.: Yeah (Laughs)
Dami: Yeah, right now taking time off for mental health is valid
T.I.: Is legit. Right?!
Dami: I mean compared to, I think for the millennials where you know., it’s more like or even the late bloomer, is like which one is mental health?
T.I.: Mental?
Dami: Excuse me
- I.: Kai now
(Dami and T. I. laughs)
Dami: It is just the way things happens
- I.: Hmm hmm
Dami: It’s just unfortunately
T.I.: But I mean we have to go back to our topic for today, but I wanted to say something, do you think it it’s a disadvantage to them because, I mean to us or, you know, I don’t know the earlier generations you’re not allowed to say that you have mental health and all that, but what it did is build resilience in people, right? Do you think that it’s a disadvantage to Gen Z? Do you think that they will still build resilience regardless of all?
Dami: I’m not really sure. I’m not really sure. (Laughs). I’m not really sure what’s going to happen. But it it’s something that would, I mean it’s a conversation,
- I.: (Cuts in) I think it will make people, make them give up easily. Once it is inconveniencing them or maybe
Dami: Yeah, yeah, sure. Definitely. Yeah, Obed, by all means. This is something that line a lot with something we’re very worried about.
Obed: Not that so, I’ve heard a lot of people, real millennials are not entirely cool with Gen Zs.
Dami and T. I.: Hmm
Obed: That is something I value about Gen Zs. They are fearless. They are afraid of nothing
- I.: Hmmm
Obed: Now we were raised with rules.
Dami: Yeah
- I.: Right
Obed: Go to school, so you would get a 9 to 5
Dami: right.
Obed: They, someone called on our show one time and said something very funny in a way
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: of how his father had told him if he didn’t take his studies seriously, he will not pay his school fees. He was saying, once in a while, you can just threaten your children a little and I said something to him, you don’t try it with Gen Zs. They will leave your house ’cause they’re going to make millions with their phones.
- I.: Yes, please
Obed: If you work with the millennials,
- I.: (Cuts in) You even try to threaten them.
Obed: So, I feel that thing can have a hold on the Gen Z
Dami and T.I.: Hmm
Obed: See they are the future of Nigeria. It is not a thing I think
Dami: Yeah
Obed: these guys would build games from their rooms
- I.: Right
Obed: They create apps. They are the future
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: And so, the early we the millennials, come to accepting that truth and knowing. For them somewhere, truth be told, loving and respecting is not in greeting you. But then we can’t abolish it because we are Africans
- I.: Right
Dami: Hmm
Obed: You get?!
- I.: Right
Obed: they have come from that place of my loyalty is not tied in “Dogbale”
Dami and T.I.: Hmm hmmm
Obed: You know?! (Laughs)
Dami: I can’t remember who I even had that conversation with. I honestly can’t remember but, I think he had, he’s not from, I don’t know if it was you but, he went to hear a Yoruba community, he doesn’t come from here but he’s, he’s not, he doesn’t really feel that whole greeting by the”Dogbale”
T.I.: Prostrating. Yes
Dami: I think it was one culture thing. So you know like how you can do certain things here and be like, good afternoon sir. Good afternoonma. But Umm, I think when he went to UK
- I.: (Cuts in) He went to kneel down.
Dami: Not neccessarily knee down. But, you will still, that subconscious bowing down to greet were still there, and everyone ooks at it like.
- I.: But, i think if it’s not done in timidity or in shyness, so I think that it doesn’t really matter.
Obed: The (Voice becomes inaudible) is you
- I.: Hmm
Obed: are doing it, perception on the other end, you get it
Dami: Yeah
- I.: Right, right.
Obed: I think scripturesin the holy book says, when your Rome, in Rome, act like the Romans
Dami and T. I.: Hmm
Obed: It takes a whole lot of determination. I have nothing against you prostrating
- I.: Yeah
Obed: It’s respect, but imagine living in the UK and you are dressed up and you work in a corporate environment and your chairman is 70 years old and you want to prostrate
- I.: Hmm
Obed: Is, some people will perceive it as as.
Dami: Master serving kind of thing.
Obed: No. it’s hypocrisy.
Dami: Hmm
- I.: Yeah. it’s out of place
Obed: This boy is up to something.
Dami: Hmm hmm
- I.: Something is wrong
(Dami and T. I. laughs)
Obed: Do you get? So, what I am at this point poaching is, when you’re in Nigeria, “Dogbale”
Dami: By all means
Obed: At the places that should be
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: Because there are places in Nigeria you would go to that that would still be unnecessary.
- I.: Hmm hmm
Dami: Yeah.
Obed: Yeah, you get that. Going back to the initial conversation, the Gen Zs have something that I feel the millennials should be deliberate to learn from them
Dami: Hmm
Obed: They are not afraid of anything
- I.: Agree
Obed: They would take on anything, anytime, any day.
Dami: Really. So really that really easier. But if it’s funny enough, this somehow diverted from our conversation. But our conversation, really, what we actually want to talk about, because we had this conversation in the office earlier, where we asked,’Is intellect and Abilities Fixed at Birth?” And it was a very huge argument
- I.i: Hmm
Dami: if you thought it’s something I would like to discuss with you today
- I.: I mean, I said that it is and it is not because I believe that the people who because they have certain gene, they’re good. They have inborn traits, inborn talent, right?
Dami: Hmmm
- I.: And the people who would learn the same thing and then you know, but I’m saying if given the equal amount of training, equal amount of exposure to somebody who may be the mother is a artist or something
Dami: Yeah
- I.: and then somebody who the parent, the parent is not artistic or you know, doesn’t have creative side, but then you want them to learn how to draw or something and they have the same level of or the same amount of training and all that I think the person with a parent who’s an artist would do better. That’s what I think
Dami: No, I mean you can never tell, but at this point, I’ve got to open up the Phone lines? Really?
What do you think? Is the same question we usually ask at the same time? Are leaders born or are leaders made? They are two seperate things, because you hear that statement sometimes, “Natural Born Leader”. That kind of, people actually do, but it didn’t say they should
- I.: (Cuts in) No
Dami: There are people who
- I.: (Cuts in) Yeah, because there are people who just, I would use myself as an example. I hardly go anywhere and go unnoticed, even when I don’t speak. (Dami and T. I laughs). I’m serious. And so I had to harness that. I didn’t use to speak like this. Let me give you one gist. My siblings just call me “One place”, because I didn’t know how to, we spoke Yoruba in my house,
Dami: Hmmm
- I.:but in school we speak English, right? But I wasn’t, I didn’t used to converse in English. and we went to a birthday party and my siblings were they were wondering like this girl is outspoken, why she not talking in this party? But everybody was speaking plenty English. My mom. My daddy. I say God, I don’t know how to say this things. Let me just keep quiet. (Dami laughs). At home they said, why didn’t I? I just said I don’t know anybody there, I don’t just want tO say anything.
Dami: You just don’t want to expose yourself uncessarily (Laughs)
- I.: Then my brother gave a rule that is you know what, in this house we are not going to speak Yoruba to ourselves again except to our parent. We are going to speak in English. I said, okay. No wahala. I’ll give it a try. And so my elder sister sat in just one chair that morning. But, you know, you do this, you do that.
And she just sat in that spot, on that spot. She didn’t stand up. I wanted to say, ah aha (speaks Yourba). I wanted to say it in English, you sit in one space, You say go here, go there, come here. They were embarrass. Oh no. they were embarrass
Dami: This is why
- I.: (Cuts in) And they always call me one space. Over time, when I know that people, I don’t know why, but then I’m in the room, you know, people just naturally gravitate towards me. They want to pick somebody for a contest and they’ll say you come
Dami: Hmmm
- I.: And I did raise up my hand.
Dami: I think it’s a perception
Obed: It’s a persona
Dami: Yeah, it’s the way it is.
- I.: You don’t think that that’s been born naturally? (Laughs)
Obed: Sorry, I keep, You know
Dami: Yeah, It is fine.
Obed: I think it’s your persona and charisma.
- I: Right
Obed: OK. that.
- I.: But even as a child, I don’t think I had charisma.
Obed: No when you talk of charisma, it’s, So I walk into a room, I don’t necessarily need to say a word.
- I.: Right.
Obed: There’s an ambiance there that makes you feel like, hmm, there is an aura. It’s called a gait.
- I.: Right
Obed: G. A. I. T
- I.: right.
Obed: That is what you are. And then so people didn’t need to. It was now your intellect is exuded when you’re given a task.
- I.: Right.
Obed: Or a job to do that needs to speak or act
Dami and T. I.: Hmm hmm
Obed: Don’t forget definition of Intellect says, the faculty of reasoning and understanding
- I.: Hmm hmm
Obed: objectively, especially you understand it objectively, especially with regards to abstract matters so that all of us are not responding to abstract matters
Dami: Hmmm
Obed: Does not mean we’re not intelligent, but you know it’s a core end
Dami and T. I: Hmm hmm
Obed: and upper hand. So what happened to you then in that phase of your life was you know, it was an aura you had and there was Intellect embedded.
- I.: Right
Obed: It just needed recognition
Dami: Hmm hmm
- I.: Right
Obed: And then we can take that aura. OK, so I have a friend in Port Harcourt, whose uncle greatest fight in his life has been to be the Chairman of the local park.
Dami: (Chukles)
- I.:And he doesn’t like his uncle. He feels embarrassed
Dami: (Laughs)
- I.: I said that is theone guy, that If you call him right now and say I need 10K, he will come through.
Dami and T. I.: Hmmm
- I.: Your uncles that are professors and doctors won’t. Imagine every vehicle is giving him N100 a day.
- I.: Hmm hmm
Obed: He’s a big, he is a winner. His structured Intellect is to manage that space.
- I.: Hmm hmm
Dami: Not necessarily
Obed: So it’s not really when you win a Nobel Laurel, that are intellectual.
Dami and T.I.: Hmmm
Obed: It’s a win on every phase, yeah.
Dami: Definitely, I mean, I mean the series I usually refer to in this case, is the “Good Doctor”. He was autistic and he was an excellent doctor, but in other aspects of life, he, unfortunately, failed, especially with building relationships and getting deeper with new relationships
- I.: But I won’t say fail
Dami: Not fail. But he wasn’t, he wasn’t great.He had to make, obviously you make mistakes but compared to him being a doctor that he where he was, the level of mistakes he made were minimal compared to every other aspect of his life in that sense.
- I.: Hmm hmm
Dami: So I’ll open up the phone lines now, 0700-923-923-923. Again .0700-923-923-923 or you can send us a WhatsApp message on 0817-133-193. Did I say that right? 0817-613-3193. Alright. 0817-313-6193. Yeah, I usually mix up the number. 0817-313-6193 or 0700-923-923-923. Let me know your thoughts, really about this, do you think intellect or our intellect and abilities are fixed at birth? Do you generally have a pattern of or Like they say, are leaders born or leaders made? What do you think really?
Obed: Or geniuses born?
Dami: Or are geniuses born?
- I.: Yeah
Dami: Or geniuses made? That’s a very interesting one at the same time.
Obed: I couldsubscribe to geniuses being born than leaders being born
Dami and T. I.: Hmmm
Obed: Alright.
(Call comes in and end abruptly)
Dami:Oh, we lost that one. Do keep trying to call back, 0700-923-923-923. We are very much open to hearing your thoughts. Are geniuses born or are geniuses, but at the same time, geniuses can be born, right? But I mean. It’s very tricky.
- I.: One of our colleagues said that he doesn’t think that geniuses are born or like people are born with, they are fixed at birth, intelligence and ability a brith
Obed:Yes, they are. I would argue that anyway. The Wilbur Rights, The guy who made the bomb, nobody taught him. He was born.
- I.: But the argument was that he had to learn.
Dami: he had to learn certain things
Obed: And surpassed it
(Call comes in)
Dami: Hello. Yeah, hi. Good evening, thanks for calling The Good Citizen Show. What’s your name? Where you calling from?
Caller: Hi, good evening.. My name is (Goice becomes inaudible)
Dami: Yur name is what, sorry? Hello?
Caller: Yes, I said. Good evening. My name is Michael.
Dami: OK. Hi, good evening, Michael. Thank you for calling The Good Citizen Show. So what are your thoughts? Are geniuses born? Or are they made? And are leaders born or maid? intellect fixed at birth?
What do you think?
Caller: Let’s start with leadership.
Dami: Ok
- I.: Right
Caller: I don’t think that leaders are born. I think leaders are made
Dami: OK
- I.: Hmm
Caller: The same way doctors are not born. Architects are not born. The same way, engineers are not born, right?!
Dami: Hmm hmmm
Caller: This guys are made. They have to go to school. They have to study engineering or medicine, whatever field
Dami: Hmmm
Caller: The same amount of studying, reading hard, preparing and at the end of that journey, the pain is a certificate or degree that say this man is a medical doctor
Dami: Hmmm
Caller: But from that point, he is now known as Doctor.
Dami: So, so, so, and so
Caller: XYZ
- I.: Hmmm
Caller: right?
Dami: Yeah
Caller: So he went through a process and became transformed and became a specialist in a particular field.
Dami: Hmmm
Caller: And so he is an authority or a thought leader in that field
Dami: OK.
Caller: Leadership, It’s the same thing. You’re not born a leader. You are born a man with certain capacities
- I: Hmm hmmm
Caller: And I opened to leadership is a journey.
Dami and T. I.: Hmm
Caller: And the extent to which you’re a leader depends on the extent to which you grow and learn and discard certain traits that are not leadership traits.
Dami: Hmm
Caller: For instance, one of the key things about leadership is integrity.
Dami and T. I.: Hmm hmm
Caller: My world is defined as the consistency of words and action. Consitency of words and action and so. Over time, I learn to become more truthful. I, you know, I form my values, and my life journey is defined by those core values of integrity, accountability, you know, and the rest of them. And those are some of the things that you define who a world leader is. And then those other soft skills like emotional intelligence
Dami: Hmm
Caller: That also shappen the mind of a leader, the way he or she approaches issues, right? And at what extent are able to influence people based on their understanding of self and then understanding of other people. Leaders are not born. Leaders are people, and it’s a very tough job to become a leader. Right and yeah, so for geniuses, hmm
Obed: OK.
Dami: We’ve lost that. Ok. Just quickly round up.
Caller: Ok. So it looks like I have taken a bit of time, I’ll leave it at that. Thank you
(Call ends)
Dami: OK. Thank you so much, Michael, for that really. I mean, I do like his perspective of things really about, you know, leaders and all that. I think sometimes being a leader, I think like I I think I would agree that they’re being made because they grow up, The chances of someone being a leader starts though, from the home. If there’s a natural, not natural, if there’s any leader in the house, you know, like how.
Children, turn off micmick their parents
Obed: Yeah
Dami: in most cases, I think if they have that exposure early enough. They would most likely carry, that’s how you miss likely if there’s a father and mother in the house acts a certain way, by the time there may be primary school and is time to do group work, oya gather together. You just naturally find one person maybe because of
Obed: An aura
Dami: Yes
Obed: That was what she said earlier about environment
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: fortunate, but what we need to come to realize is, be on a Plain field
Dami: Hmm
Obed: the boy that is first in the village that may not be able to stand on exams in Ikoyi is first in his village
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: Compared to the boy living in Ikoyi that is first
- I.: Hmm hmm
Obed: the difference between is time and space
Dami: Yeah
Obed: And opportunity. You can learn on the basis of O. I. R. Observation, imitation and repetition
Dami: Hmm hmmm
Obed: You get, so it’s it’s basic. Everybody is born a leader. The way that life happens to you, it is now your persona that builds resilience to learning and aligning.
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: There is something Abraham Hicks called the “Inner Vortex”.
Dami: Hmm
Obed: our inner self aligning and learning from those processes, you get
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: And then they were geniuses being born. Yes, genius are born.
Dami: I think they are
Obed: I think someone has created a machine that kills cancer. So you don’t have to do the whole dialysis thing and all of that, that that guy is a genius.
Dami: Yeah. Right
Obed: The Person operating the machine in a hospital is a professional man.
- I.: Right.
Obed: (Laughs) that guy was born with the know-how
Dami: Hmm hmm
Obed: To solve that problem
Dami: Yeah
Obed: And yes, but he Had to learn certain Things and basic things
Dami: I think
- I.: (Cuts in) I think that’s what our colleague was trying to say in the morning that he has to see, I mean somebody has to still learn and put the information together, put the data together to be able to come up with a
(Cal comes in)
Dami: Hello, hi, good evening. Thanks for putting The Good Citizen Show. Where you calling from.
What’s your name?
Caller: (Voice becomes inaudible)
Dami: If you can turn down the volume of your radio se.
(Call eeds)
- We’ve lost that call already. And how unfortunate. Yeah, like you, I think also to bring about this, this movie, Hidden Figures. Uhm, where the I can’t remember her name
- I.: The three women.
Dami: There women. Hidden Figures. You know, there was one where she was in class and she was just so smart that the teacher has to say, you know what? She’s too smart for this class.
- I.: Hmm
Dami: She was so good with umbers
- I.: Hmm hmm
Dami: like you know what? Please, just get, she needs it. I think that so, so if you’re looking at it that way, geniuses, they are born with that problem. I mean, yeah.
(Call comes in)
Hello! Thanks for calling The Good Citizen Show. What’s your name? Where you calling from?
(Call ends)
Ohl we lost that. We only have time for one more call. Keep trying to call 0700-923-923-923. Again 0700-923-923-923.
So like I was saying, that lady had the ability to deal with numbers and complex calculations way beyond her age. So I think that was just like the count as a genius. Because she was born with it and just needed a little bit of basics. And after getting the basics, she was like, OK, you know what? This is now too basic for me
- I: Yeah
Dami: I need to go
T.I.: To a more difficult
Dami: (Cuts in) Which I think will most likely be the same thing with Einstein and rest.
- I.: I think maybe that’s where they say that if you want to build a Intelligent quotient, Do more difficult, not difficult, critical thinking
Dami: Hmmm
- I.: Critical because., when you meet a level of difficulty and you’re able to solve it, then instead of sort of set you up
Dami: Improves
- I.: Yes
Dami: For better. And then you keep going and you keep going and keep going. But uhm, just we have just one more call if you want to call in. But I think you know like you know, like we’ve said really.
So we understand that yes, leaderships or leaders are made, not born, right?!
- I.: Right.
Dami: Then geninues are born and not made
- I.: Or can be made (Laughs)
Dami: You never can tell. Really. But it’s a it’s a complex situation entirely, but we’ve run out of time already. Uhm, but do keep trying to call again next week Friday. We’re having, we have a deeper conversation about other topics coming up in Nigeria, things are happening in Nigeria that we have to discuss about how we can grow this nation. And if you have not gotten your PVC? Please do go and do so. Go and do so please. Do you have your PVC, Tawio? I’m sorry I mentioned your name.
T.I.: (Laughs) My undercover name
Dami: Don’t worry. I’m use calling you, Tawio. The other one, the I, go and look for it. You can guess what it means, maybe you will win something.
- I: Yeah. It’s a place in Lagos (Dami and T. I. Laughs). But, I mean, we can start from there. If you can get.
It
Dami: Don’t worry. Maybe. Don’t hold me to it. It’s a maybe. For either way, thank you, T. I. for joining us on the show today.
- I.: Thank you for having me.
Dami: You’ll be hearing her voice more and more as you go along as well. And again, I’m.
Your host for this evening with our lovely T. I. Mmy name is Dami Cruz. Do have a, you haven’t answered my question, though
- I: What’s the question?
Dami: Do you have your PVC?
- I.: Oh, OK. So that’s a good question. (Dami and T. I. laughs) I have registered, right? I just need to go.
And stand in queue to do my biometrics, but I will, I will do that
Dami: OK. OK, that’s great. OK, I stil have few more seconds to read what this person said on WhatsApp.
Sorry, hold on. Just one quick one. Where they said on WhatsApp, he says, OK, “Leaders are made e.g. Military, academic, specifically trained officers to become leaders after graduation. Attractive young, age below 25, they are charged to lead men who are even much older than them. Yes, geniuses, on the other hand, are born, their brains from infancy and childhood…
T. I.: (Cuts in) Yeah, that’s the word or operates at a
Dami: Operate at a much more higher capacity than their peers.” So really. So here we go. We actually have some answers to our questions as well. So thank you again for listening to the good citizen. Do tune again last week, Friday at 5:30 PM on the lovely Inspritation 92.3 FM.
I am your host for the evening, Dami Cruz, with T. I. and this show is brought to you by CSR-in-Action and proudly, proudly sponsored by ACT Foundation. Do have a lovely weekend. Enjoy the rest of the month of August. We will see you again in September. Definitely in September by the Grace of God.
- I.i: Bye.
Dami: Do have a lovely evening and bye bye.
